from stealthmunchkin

[ewt]

A lot has been said about how to prevent rape. Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn't have long hair and women shouldn't wear short skirts. Women shouldn't leave drinks unattended. Fuck, they shouldn't dare to get drunk at all. Instead of that bullshit, how about:

If a woman is drunk, don't rape her.
If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her.
If a women is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her.
If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her.
If a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don't rape her.
If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her.
If a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her.
If a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her.
If a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her.
If a woman is in a coma, don't rape her.
If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her.
If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her.
If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her.
If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her.
If your step-daughter is watching TV, don't rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her.
If your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend.
If your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and it's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and tell the guy he's a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it's not okay to rape someone.
Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape. See comments for why I've crossed this out.
Don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x.
Don't imply that it's in any way her fault.
Don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl.
Don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.

If you agree, re-post it. It's that important.

Note:
This goes for any gendered rape, male on female or female on male or FTM on MTF or non gendered to dual gendered and so on and so forth

Comments

[beingjdc.livejournal.com]

I've discussed this at length. I think the premise is wrong. I particularly think

Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape

is wrong, but more generally, I don't think that telling good people not to do bad things that they wouldn't ever do anyway is a good way of preventing bad people from doing the bad things they are going to do regardless of whether good people say it's a bad idea or not.

Implying that suggesting people be careful about the risk of getting their drinks spiked is morally equivalent to saying that if they wear a short skirt they were asking for it, is both nonsensical and divisive.

[ewtikins.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

I've seen a lot of "how to be safe" advice that somehow magically turns into "If you'd done X then this would never have happened, it is ALL YOUR FAULT," though.

[beingjdc.livejournal.com]

Well yes, so have I, possibly the most absurd being the "don't use your mobile phone in public" posters.

Still, I am firmly of the view that X > Y by several orders of magnitude, where X is 'number of rapes prevented by explaining the circumstances in which rapes happen and ways of minimising the likelihood of being in them', and Y is 'number of rapes prevented by saying how naughty rape is and asking people nicely to stop doing it'.

Actively resisting dissemination of information X strikes me as especially dangerous, but maybe I take a short-termist view of social trends.

[nyecamden.livejournal.com]

People we perceive as 'good' are often ones who rape and murder. Neighbours of serial killers frequently say 'but he was so normal!'

[beingjdc.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but they don't often say "I wish I'd told him what a bad idea I thought serial killing was", do they?

[lethargic-man.livejournal.com]

Beat me to it, on all points.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

Don't tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape.

I disagree with this one. There are ways to minimise the chances of being raped. If you are cognizant of those methods and practices and decide not to advise a female friend of them when she professes ignorance, and she subsequently ends up getting raped through ignorance of them, you are an indirect party to that assault.

Yes, I know, in an ideal world women should be able to drink as much as they like and wear what they like and not have to worry about the risk of being raped. But this is not an ideal world; it's never going to be an ideal world, and the sad fact is that a drunk woman in a garment that resembles a belt more than a skirt is neglecting her own personal safety and is behaving very stupidly.

Women should take responsibility for their own actions and not expect others to look out for them when they have deliberately incapacitated themselves.

[7leaguebootdisk.livejournal.com]

I thought this list would be better reversed. The cultural stuff applies to almost everyone, the "don't commit a clear felony" stuff applies to only a very small percentage.

[uon.livejournal.com]

I find this list intensely aggravating and patronising. I mean,

If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her

Well, gee, I'd never thought about it like that! I mean, until I'd read this, I'd never have thought twice about raping someone walking alone at night but now you bring it up I suppose it's not a nice thing to do! I guess I'll just have to stick to mugging instead.

If you agree, re-post it. It's that important.

Yeah right, like posting this all over livejournal will get it read by the rapists of the world, and they'll carefully think it over and see the error of their ways.

Sorry, Ewt, it's nothing personal, but I've lost count of how many times I've seen this pop up now. The "Please stop beating your wife" adverts on the tube annoy me just as much. By all means work to change the intensely awful stigma or shame or implication of guilt, and encourage people to report these things and stop covering up, but going around saying "Please don't rape people" is going to be about as useful as saying "Please don't murder".

[knockoutapathy.livejournal.com]

I think the point of the first half of it is tongue in cheek, directed at the people who say "dont wear a skirt" or "dont ever be nice to a male". It's about as intelligent as saying "dont rape a drunk woman" to a possible rapist.

To thee poster: heh, I suppose this goes some way to answering my feminism question.

[ewtikins.livejournal.com]

To thee poster: heh, I suppose this goes some way to answering my feminism question.

I missed the question, probably due to problems with receiving comments by e-mail of late. Where was it?

[spangle-kitten.livejournal.com]

If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her

Well, gee, I'd never thought about it like that! I mean, until I'd read this, I'd never have thought twice about raping someone walking alone at night but now you bring it up I suppose it's not a nice thing to do! I guess I'll just have to stick to mugging instead.

I agree. Telling a rapist not to rape someone in a vulnerable position is like telling a BNP member that actually most black people are quite nice really and they should stop beating them up if they see them alone late at night.

And the "don't beat your wife" adverts hardly cause people to go 'oh, didn't think of that, I better stop immediatly!' it's just too naive and comes from people who seem to think that people are inherently good.

[oban23.livejournal.com]

The only problem here is... there are people who would never get anywhere with women unless they're drunk. And I don't mean bring home a half-unconscious chick and banging her. For some people (me for example) it is impossible to even communicate properly unless drunk. And no sober girl has ever liked me... as a matter of fact not even the drunk girls after they sobered up.

[vashti.livejournal.com]

I've reposted this (with my own mod).

As far as the "well, I was going to rape you but now you told me it sucks I won't" stuff, whatever. I'm unceasingly amazed by the people I know who manage to come out with crap like "you got drunk/walked home/etc, what did you think would happen". Less blaming the victim and more blaming the perpetrators, please; thxbai.

[dreamerdark.livejournal.com]

I agree that no woman should be blamed for her own rape and at the same time women still should be educated thoroughly on the danger and what can be done to avoid it-its good to protect yourself but if you don't its still not any less of an offence. *I* know it wasn't my fault, but still, I would've done alot of things differently had I been more aware of the danger.

[raindael.livejournal.com]

I get a feeling I read this post from a different perspective ... the list does not stir anger in me, it says we have to be aware and not judge others, that all things are not as they appear, as far as warnings go.
I would have prefered to discuss this with someone IRL, just incase I managed to view it upside down to others (then again, I am from "downunder"
Taking it along the lines of .... don't run someone down on a dark and wet night with your car, just because they are out alone does not mean they are fair game.....

[welikegoats.livejournal.com]

You omitted, "Lobby your MP for the death penalty for rapists."

[nyecamden.livejournal.com]

State sanctioned murder is murder.

[spangle-kitten.livejournal.com]

I think saying all this is all well and good...and I agree entirely that no-one should ever be raped. But you try telling a rapist those comments. All those scenarios mentioned are ones that rapists love because they can have theier filthy way with women. Of course women should be able to walk the streets at 5am wearing whatever they please, nothing if they really want to...but to expect to not get raped if they're in a vulnerable position is dangerous.

I think women should take precautions to be safe and avoid rape becuase rapists are people with a certain repulsive mentality that does not see that advise as 'normal.' It is just silly to assume people are going to be safe, because they aren't.

I've been raped 4 times. All of which were circumstances (barring one which I doubt the person writing the advise can even concieve of) listed above. I'm very very cynical. I used to want to see the best in people and trust them, through this came the circumstances in which I was raped.

Tell any sane, normal man any of those situations and they'd say they already knew that and adheared to it...tell a rapist and they'd say "they're my favourite targets." Sad but true.

[gigglingwizard.livejournal.com]

The issue of rape victims being drunk is one I think needs some clarification. If someone drinks herself into unconsciousness and someone rapes her, she is not to be blamed. She took a foolish risk and paid for it dearly, but it wouldn't have happened unless someone had taken the initiative to victimize her. While she could have prevented the situation, the victim's not to blame.

If someone maintains consciousness but is drunk enough to be physically impaired such that she can't effectively fight off a rapist, it's the same thing. She might have prevented the situation, but she didn't initiate the crime. It's not her fault. After all, what's her ability to fight back got to do with anything? If she's sober and is unable to fend off an attack, it's not her fault. When a child or a handicapped person is raped, we don't point fingers at them and say, "If only you had put on 50 pounds of muscle and become a master of martial arts, this wouldn't have happened." It's not her fault.

But when a woman who normally exercises good judgment gets drunk and finds her judgment impaired, and thus KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY has sex with someone, and then regrets it afterward or gets upset when she realizes that her partner didn't use a condom or she's worried about her boyfriend finding out or something, I have a serious problem with people getting all up in arms and calling for her one-night-stand to be prosecuted as a rapist. I'm talking about a situation where a woman is not attacked, but rather feels taken advantage of because of something she did and perhaps even initiated while suffering a deliberately self-inflicted lapse of judgment. If you drink to get loosened up, and it works, it's just plain wrong to try to hold someone else responsible for your own loosened grip on your inhibitions. If we're going to cross the line of blaming an alcoholic's sex partners for sex she later regrets consenting to, we might as well go all the way and start prosecuting pubs and breweries as accessories to rape. Contraceptive manufacturers could be made to pay child support for failing to make sure people used their products, lest we expect adults to take responsibility for their own irresponsible decisions.

Maybe that's not what you're talking about at all, Ewt, but when the issue of intoxicants comes into any discussion of rape, I feel it's necessary to make this distinction clear--that of unwise but voluntary sexual activity versus an aggressor forcing an unwilling victim into sexual activity. Big, big difference...unless you're of the "all men are rapists and all sex is rape" school of thought, which I won't even go near.

[ewtikins.livejournal.com]

*nod* I agree, it is an important distinction, and no, it isn't what I was talking about.

unless you're of the "all men are rapists and all sex is rape" school of thought

No, I'm not. I've never quite understood why some people think that way.

[foolfaerie420.livejournal.com]

All sex is definitely *not* rape. My pardons to Andrea Dworkin. Bad relationships happen because of an imballance of power...not rapes. Rapes happen because of an imballanced mind. Sociopsychopathic behaviour pure and simple. Included in rape is date rape, and frat rape.

Rape is part of war. The internal effects of a drug war, a cultural war, and a greater Western Society which condones war. If you judge just by many of my closest friends here in Cali you would think it nearly impossible to reach maturity without having a father or step father rape you.

A sign of the incredible divide in this country, and the worship of the culture of war.

The war is enacted everytime we are in hostile circumstances. Often the people who are likely to rape are partially visible...mostly invisible. The people who rape (of whom a small percentage are women) need extensive counseling. A great amount of life experience has often gone into creating their capacity to do sexual violence (often being past victims themselves), and some real effort and time needs to be put into nuetralizing or eliminating the capacity.

Unfortunately jails are often part of the problem, continuing the cycle with more abuse heaped on the pile, creating more pressure.

[pplfichi.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately jails are often part of the problem, continuing the cycle with more abuse heaped on the pile, creating more pressure.

*Nods nods*

Prisons are supposed to have a dual purpose of punishment and rehabilitation.

I'm becoming more and more convinced that prison really doesn't serve it's purpose of rehabilitation at all. Maybe instead of more government funding to build more prisons the money should be used instead to fund a serious attempt to find ways to rehabilitate offenders so they won't enter a cycle of re-offending. That's what we all really want at the end of the day is it not?

(And people that just want to hang everyone ought to be provided with help themselves...?)

[thefifthfloor.livejournal.com]

i agree with this whole heartedly, even though i can see the good intentions I would rather not be belittled and would appreate it if people (generally men) would see rape for what it is and validate that--- It is not a 'womens problem' (speaking about male-female rape) this is grossly a mens issue, they need to recognize it within themselves.

Indiana University has an IU mens Coalition fighting Violence against Women commited by men. the only problem is if these men are enlightened enough to join such a group they are preaching to the choir. They has to be a way to reach out to all the other men.. and im not talking after they rape someone and are jailed but prevent the problem from happening... How to figure out which men are more likly to rape... i dont know i just think it should be done.

[oban23.livejournal.com]

Get back to Lombroso's theory of "born criminal"? Perhaps based on the shape of the skull and the bent of the penis?